The HR Community Podcast
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Civitas Talent is excited to bring you a series of podcasts dedicated to the HR community. This is a space where you can learn best-practice solutions from HR community leaders, with host Shane O'Neill.
Whether you’re a CEO, HR executive or operating across the wider HR sector - this podcast is for you!
The HR Community Podcast
The HR Community Podcast: Navigating Start-Up Culture with Nicole Karagiannis Chief People Officer for Harrison AI
Ever wondered what it's like to navigate the fast-paced world of start-ups as a HR leader? Nicole Karagiannis, our esteemed guest for this episode, is here to share her enlightening journey. As Chief People Officer for the innovative Harrison AI, Nicole brings a wealth of knowledge from her diverse career path, which has spanned industries such as banking, healthcare and more. Her unique blend of professional wisdom, personal anecdotes, and genuine dedication to positive employee experiences make this dialogue a must-listen for anyone looking to create a thriving workplace culture.
Harrison-ai is a clinician-led technology platform combining human intelligence with artificial intelligence (AI), building a range of ventures to change the face of healthcare and benefit millions of patients every day.
Nicole doesn't shy away from the pressing issues in HR today. She candidly discusses the challenges of bridging the gap between founders and those in cultural or operational roles. With her rich background and empathetic approach, she offers invaluable advice on balancing dreams with boundaries, fostering an environment that appeals to founders, and the crucial role of adaptability in the startup space. From sharing her mission to create a meaningful legacy in her roles to discussing the generational gap among founders, Nicole's take on HR in the startup world is as insightful as it is inspiring. Tune in and let Nicole's journey resonate with your own.
Welcome to the HR community podcast. My name is Shane O'Neill, founder of Sillatals Talent, the HR and HSC recruitment community. Each episode we will host HR leaders and discuss their journey and discover best practice HR solutions across the HR industry. Whether you're a CEO, hr executive or operating across the wider HR space, this podcast is for you. Please like and subscribe, and don't forget to comment and share your views. Enjoy the episode. Good morning everyone. Welcome back to another episode of the HR community podcast. I'm excited to share our guest this morning, nicole Cariannis, the chief people officer for Harrison AI. Good morning, nicole.
Speaker 2:Good morning, Shane. Nice to see you again.
Speaker 1:Nice to see you again. Very excited by this episode, nicole, because we've known each other a long, long time and this has been on the cards for a long time too, so very excited to get into it and have a good chat and tell all our listeners about the amazing HR journey you've had and we can get into a couple of other bits and trends as well. Before we start actually tell us a little bit about you, nicole, who you were, where you're working, a little bit about Harrison AI. That'd be amazing, of course.
Speaker 2:And the challenge for today is to try and keep a straight face, because every time we're night together we have a really good laugh Hopefully we can do that without getting sidetracked. Yes, good morning everyone. I'm Nicole. I lead the People and Culture team here at Harrison AI, have done so for two and a half years. It has been an amazing journey and was actually placed here and recruited here by a lovely head of talent who thought to reach out to you, Shane. So shout out to Pam.
Speaker 2:Shout out to Pam I promised I'd do that on this podcast and, of course, thanks to you, shane, as well. Prior to Harrison AI, I'd have to say my background is very diverse. I've worked in banking, health care, not-for-profit space, in the disability sector, public sector as well, so mostly in that in the heavy industrial relations and employee relations large organization space. So this has been an extremely different role for me in the startup and scale-up and I was just reflecting earlier this morning with someone else on how vastly different the last two and a half years have been, in the best possible way, but also how much of my past experience has come in handy as well.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, love to chat about that further on Outside of work. I am a mom to three beautiful daughters, as well as an auntie to eight nephews and nieces and, as we were chatting before the podcast, I'm one of 30 grandkids, wow, yeah. So super busy outside of work just catching up with everyone all the time.
Speaker 1:Amazing. Thanks for the intro. In terms of the experience and I know you touched on a little bit there how well did operating in those various different HR roles, particularly in the larger, more established brands, how much do you feel that maybe set you up for your journey to step into the startup and the scale-up environment which, as you and I know, is very, very different?
Speaker 2:Yeah, extremely well, I think on the probably best to look at it from three different angles, I dare say. Firstly, it's that technical knowledge right? So in a large organization you have people to share experience and share knowledge with you. You have access to policies, programs, ideas and you collect that into your own toolkit and your experience along the way. Then you find yourself in a startup role and think, oh, 20 years ago we did this at this place.
Speaker 2:I wonder how much of that is still relevant from a modern you know in this day and age and you find yourself tapping into places you didn't even know existed in your brain. And I mean I love the whole working memory, memory, talking about the brain and neuroscience, so I've enjoyed tapping into those you know archived files, if you like. That's been one aspect. The second aspect is more around your. As you're forming your personality in your earlier career days and tapping into some of your strengths in the startup space, you realize you've learned some things in larger organizations, such as adaptability, resilience, bouncing forward I don't like to say bounce back, bouncing forward and being able to work with a changing economic, external or internal environment. That synergy between those larger roles and a startup role I under. To be honest, I underestimated how similar that would be from a personal you know, tapping into a strengths-based approach. That was amazing to carry through.
Speaker 2:And then, thirdly, for me it's always been about mission and legacy. There are two things that I'm personally aligned with and they're my personal values. So everywhere I've worked, regardless of the sector, it's been about what legacy am I leaving and what is the mission of the organization? How is it contributing to the greater good of the world? And I mean, that's so easy to align to Harrison AI, and I'll explain shortly what Harrison AI actually does as well. But for me, I found that I've always been drawn to legacy and mission, regardless of my role, which was beautiful. Alignment and synergy in the startup space, because really any startup is about changing the current environment and making a difference to the world. In theory, that's what it's about.
Speaker 1:You mentioned it a little bit about the technical side, but also you talked a little bit about learning your personality and getting across different elements of who you are as a person, how your values align. Tell us a little bit about that and maybe we can spin it a little bit and look at Harrison AI as a business and maybe tell us a little bit about who they are, what they do and how your values actually align with Harrison.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, so I'll start there. So, harrison, ai is a scale-up, as we would have alluded to that. I'm in the startup scale-up space. It's been around for almost five years and is an AI organisation that is working on medical diagnostics tools and putting that in the hands of clinicians. So we have two joint ventures One which is Analysts AI works with our radiologists and works on radiology-related products, so AI that can read your chest x-ray and your CT brain scan. And we have Franklin AI, which is working on pathology products as we speak, which is very exciting. So really, we're about that earliest part of the clinician journey, which is the diagnostics part, and then, obviously, you move through from a healthcare point of view, you move through to treatment and so on. Amazing mission, which means we work with the likes of radiology organisations and pathology organisations to impact, firstly, the employee experience of the clinicians, which I'm very passionate about as an indirect relationship between an internal people and culture, function, impacting an external group of employees who aren't yours. And secondly, of course and most importantly, impacting a patient's life and making sure that we throughout AI for instance, you can triage an urgent scan and have a patient who needs an urgent diagnostic, an urgent result produced an urgent report, have that put to the top of the list and being able to treat that patient much faster. And so it's literally about saving lives. Really grateful to be part of that mission and to be leaving a tiny legacy in that big puzzle.
Speaker 2:Our values at Harrison's, we have two things. We have four values and we have nine values in action. Our values are all about recognising a number of things. Firstly, with great responsibility comes great opportunity, comes great responsibility. Always get it mixed the way around Doing our lives best, work together and obsessed with the process and, of course, how that aligns with our. And from there there's nine different values in action In terms of how these values come to life, whether it's through leading with impact, whether it is leading from the heart, whether it is stronger together. It's about doing something with what you have and doing it together as a team, but also understanding that what we're doing is very important. So it's about that urgency and bringing our solutions to the heads of clinicians, how that reflects internally for me. So my personal values and as you know, I've done so much work on what are my strengths, what are my personal values?
Speaker 2:I'm on a constant journey of finding out who I am and how that changes year on year. My personal values are around accountability, achievement and integrity. So for me, there's a beautiful alignment here in terms of not just with Harrison AI but in the startup space, around this beautiful movement around being accountable for being a good global citizen, not just being a good internal citizen to a company, but being a good global citizen and making a difference, doing that authentically and with integrity, so really being yourself and, lastly, achieving just get stuff done. So for me, on a personal level, my actions or my strengths, I should say are action self-belief. I did a strengths profile recently, so I'm rediscovering what my current realized strengths are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I can talk about that for hours and we can do that another day, but I am very and I'm a time optimizer, so I'm very driven about making the most out of my day and momentum and just keeping momentum and getting stuff done. So that's a beautiful alignment in the startup space I found.
Speaker 1:Awesome and in terms of that space as well I mean from a recruitment perspective in HR I've seen the transformation of that market as well. There's more demand at the early stages of these startups now for a strategic people and cultural leader, which is great In terms of that. It obviously comes with a lot of challenges. I mean, some of these businesses' budget might not be their strength and process might not be their strength. So I guess for those that are listening, they're in a similar situation to Nicole, or maybe they're keen to take that step into the startup scale-up environment. As a strategic HR leader, what do you feel are the sort of challenges to be aware of and also, what do you feel is the best approach to some of those challenges as well?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. Take, for example, a profile of someone who's process oriented or who's a planner or an organizer. That's a fantastic set of skills that actually startups do need and need that. But what you're doing is you're joining a place that doesn't have it, and so that realization from day one, instead of really the best thing, the best advice I can give is to shift your framework and your mindset and turn it upside down, rather than starting on day one and saying where's your policy, where's your process, where's the flow chart for this, just remember you are the creator of that policy or process or flow chart.
Speaker 2:So feel and this is something I talk about a lot feel empowered and realize that you've been hired for the skills. You're the creator. Especially as you're coming from a larger organization to a smaller one, you think, oh, there must be a team that does that. So therefore, that's not me, actually, it is you. I mean, please, by all means, go and check that no one's already doing something. You're not duplicating efforts or creating something that already exists, but really, by and large, remember that you've been hired for those skills to be the creator, not the maintainer, of these things processes, flow charts, whatever it is and that requires a mindset shift. What that requires as well is an element of self-belief that I can create something from the ground up, that I can start from a blank page. I mean, these days, if you have a good network and you reach out and you ask someone for a document or a template or a process or some advice or you do your own online research, you're not starting from scratch really, but that drive on a personal and intrinsic front, that drive to start and that discipline to continue and that resilience to finish.
Speaker 2:So I often talk about this in my team who's starting a project, who's continuing and who's closing it? That's important. So really do some work around who you are. Am I a starter? Am I the continueer? Am I the finisher? There's probably some proper, you know, fancy terms around, but I like to keep it simple and surround yourself by the right people. So if you like to start a project but you find that you lose momentum or you've lost interest or you need a different skill set that you don't have in the middle of a project, in the middle of a document, in the middle of whatever, and you need a different skill set yet again to close it out, to consult, to edit, make changes, take feedback, review it, close it, implement and launch. Surround yourself with people that complement your skill set and you work to your own strengths. That is the beautiful harmony in any team, not just the startup example, really.
Speaker 1:Love that Amazing. And in terms of that sort of startup environment and scale-up environment, again, you touched on something earlier that I sort of wanted to revisit around employee experience, which I know you're a huge advocate for Employee experience, people experience it's become a hot topic in people, in culture, particularly in the last couple of years. We've got such a demand for talent and then on top of that you've got such a demand to retain talent, recruit talent. The dynamics of people's motivations to work has changed significantly since a couple of decades ago. So I mean, in terms of that, when you're in that startup scale-up environment, you want to grow, you want to head count. First of all, how important is employee experience in that journey as a startup? And secondly, how do you really drive that across a business where they're not as known in the market, they may not have the budget versus the other bigger, more established brands?
Speaker 2:Thanks, shane, I think you've alluded to it in your question which is your brand is not known. And so that humility piece if you're the founder of the original team, the leadership team, wherever you are in the start of that journey, staying humble and instead of thinking we're special, we have something special going on here, of course, people should come and work for us, staying humble and think people don't know who we are. So to me, that goes back to your actions speak louder than your words.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's always the case, but especially true at the start, when your brand is not known. So how do you handle anything from candidate experience? How you say sorry, you didn't get this role. So how you handle candidates who aren't successful all the way to a successful candidate's offer, what your onboarding experience looks like and that includes both your people and culture, your people leader, your IT, the whole spectrum really, not just to PNC or IT's responsibility and so a key piece in that journey is your leadership. And so when someone's onboarded from an employee experience, you don't want them to say to you my people leader is great, but people and culture is not great. Or vice versa, people and culture is great, but my people leader is a bit, you know, not sure what to do with me right now so humming together as a united front, as a team, all the way beyond. You know this is an ongoing employee experience, not just the onboarding piece. I'll touch on the latter parts of someone's career.
Speaker 2:We first know initial few critical days and weeks and months to be tuned in to, just even if it's a remote experience or an in-office experience, if someone's an introvert or an extrovert, if they like a chat in the morning and they feel lonely at home, if they like a good team lunch as they're welcome, just tuning into the little touches. We joking the BNC team that we have a love language of sending each other flowers. So, understanding what your team's love language, what's your signature move as a team, as a mini tribe, what's your ceremonial touch, if you like, for when someone's joined you? These are the critical pieces because as you grow, as you grow, you're not able to scale. I guess there's a challenge as you're growing, which is you want to keep this personalised, which is what I'm talking about. You want to keep it personal and you want to keep it customised to each individual, because we're so different, we're so complex. I mean, yeah, it's hard work being a member of a family, let alone a workplace. You want to be individualising and customising everyone's experience, but as you're growing and scaling, that becomes much harder to achieve. And so the sooner you put in your cultural norms, your symbols, your signature moves. What is your tradition? How you welcome someone into the team, how you celebrate their birthday, whether it's at a company level or a team level. That's scalable and that's something that you carry throughout the whole organisation and it becomes everyone's job because it's not just a small people and culture role or it's no longer just the people leaders role, as you're scaling to be welcoming or to be making sure that someone's having a good employee experience.
Speaker 2:I'll end this answer with a little story, which is I bumped into a colleague in the office who works remotely. He's not based here in Sydney and as he approached the concierge in our building, he mentioned to me that he'd been waiting for his past. He would like personally to have a past to get in and out of the gates through the gates whenever he's in Sydney, even though he's not a frequent visitor of the building. That's his way of connecting to the organisation and he'd mentioned that he'd been waiting for it for a little while. And he didn't mention it as a complaint, he just mentioned it just as a casual comment, just to make conversation. And so, as a leader, you take the little comments, you don't just brush them off. You go to your office manager and you say so and so is still waiting.
Speaker 2:Can we do something? Because it's those little tiny moments in time that define the employee experience and you can have the best people leader, the best B&C, you've got all the tools you want, you've got all the, you know, you're paid. Well, whatever it is, whatever it is that motivates you In that moment in time. If you feel like you don't, like you're not welcome because you've asked for a pass and it's taken a little while to get to you, that has potential to damage your experience. Even if it's that 0.05%, I don't want to see any cracks in the employee experience anywhere. And so, yeah, whilst you don't own the concierge, you don't own the security of the building, you don't just point fingers and blame, make, do something about it and change that employee experience.
Speaker 2:So I share that story to say employee experience is so fragile and it's something that, if so many people are touching for you and sometimes some of it is outside of your control whether you're a people leader or you're a people and culture team member, listening to this make peace with the fact that some of these moments in an employee experience is outside your control and so knowing when that happens. No, don't just go. Oh well, that's not my problem, it's outside of my control. Sorry, sorry that that you know system crashed, it's that provider's problem, it's not my problem. And you lost hours of work. Or sorry that you're past it and get to you on time, it's not my problem. Share that. You know you want to try and do something about it and make a change, but also be open and honest. When you can't make it, you know when you can't change the situation and validate that person's feelings and make sure that they feel heard. That's employee experience.
Speaker 1:Love that.
Speaker 1:Nicole, you touched on leadership a little bit there as well and I did want to ask I guess because your experience again, it is quite unique, particularly in that startup scale of space and it's something that you know I get asked a little bit from organizations that are looking for an executive head to join or maybe thinking of joining a startup or a scale.
Speaker 1:When you talk about leadership, I find as well, sometimes it can be quite authentic, it can come quite natural, but sometimes in these startup environments you're dealing with a very different leadership team at times, because you're dealing with a true entrepreneur, someone that's thought of an idea, took the risk, audaciously, set it up, the business up overnight. So I guess there's two ways we can look at this question is what's the experience and also advice that you would give other HR leaders like yourself, entering that leadership dynamic of working with people who've not really led teams but they have started a business? And also for those who have maybe been in that startup phase, they've started a business and they've not really known how to approach the HR question, yes, what's the kind of experience you've had and what's the kind of advice you would give anyone that's maybe a bit green to it?
Speaker 2:I love that question and it can go in so many different directions.
Speaker 1:Nice one.
Speaker 2:One day, I'm going to write a book about this question when I have spare 10 minutes, which?
Speaker 2:one day I will have when the girls are at university or married or something. Let's take a step back. Given where we are in Australia, and if you're listening globally as well, I guarantee you you know someone, you're related to someone, you're married to someone. There's someone in your family who owns a business, whether it's a small business of like a team of one, or someone who owns a large business, or someone who owns a startup. You know someone who runs a business if it's not you personally. So this is what I'm very passionate about talking about.
Speaker 2:The chasm or the gap between who you are and who the founders are is not as big as you think, and if you make it larger in your brain, in your mind, then you start to fall into this false trap of I'm not speaking their language, they're not speaking my language, they don't get you know, they don't get my team, my world, I don't get their world, and you start to subconsciously drift apart. And I talk about this because you have to start with compassion for everyone, not just for the founders, not just for the leadership team. My biggest advice for people in culture and, of course, a lot of B and C folk have a lot of empathy and a lot of compassion, walk a mile in their shoes and understand where they're coming from, and essentially what that means is start by understanding where they're coming from.
Speaker 1:In other words.
Speaker 2:They're entrepreneurial, they're innovators, they're dreamers and you want to harness that. At the same time, there's going to be healthy tension somewhere along the way to say, no, you can't do this because you know you're breaching XYZ policy or there'll be a law somewhere that stops you from innovating. And that's the whole point and the beauty of a startup you're disrupting, you're transforming, you're changing. So, of course, there's going to be that healthy tension I call it healthy because there's no other way for it to exist that tension between I'm dreaming of a different world, tell me why I can't do it, versus OK, thanks for telling me I can't do it. I'm just going to listen to you and I'm not going to dream anymore. So, if you have, in fact, you don't want to work with founders who go oh, ok, thanks for telling me that this policy or that law or that thing should stop me from doing this thing. No worries, I'll stop dreaming now. Cheers, you want to work with someone who goes that's exactly what I've hired you for. Give me the boundaries, give me the rulebook, give me the confines, but also tell me how we can overcome this and let's get creative together.
Speaker 2:So, as an executive B and C leader, you need to be open. If you're not creative or curious, please be. Please get curious and creative. There's a thing called CQ Curiosity Quotient. So not just EQ, iq, there's also CQ. So please be curious and keep an open mind. And sometimes this is the beauty of this world. Someone's dream is to get to, let's say, 100%, no landing on the moon. Wherever you want to land, along the way, you'll come and say you can't do this but you can do that. Or let's try this instead. Or what about this? 10 times out of 10, you're landing somewhere better than where you started, as opposed to not moving the needle at all. And that's the whole point of together. We're in this movement of making the world a better place. So, for me, curiosity and creativity gets you there. Now there is this. I guess the other side of your question, shane, is around working with different leaders.
Speaker 1:And you're going to work with different leaders in any setup.
Speaker 2:But if we take the founder this is another one of my favorite topics if you take the founder stereotype, that's out there and actually a journalist interviewed me a few months ago for a coaching, executive coaching article because I'm an executive coach and asked me a question I was a bit upset by which is a founder's all hard to coach. It was a leading question.
Speaker 2:It was a trap. Get a bite as you do for people to read your newspaper article. I suppose it was a bit of a. Founder's are hard to work or hard to coach, aren't they? And I said I don't know, have you met every founder in this country? I haven't. I've only met a few. I work with two and I've only met a few. So let's not sit here and generalize and become part of, let's not become part of the problem. Let's not stereotype IT folk or PNC folk or founders or CEOs of large organizations, because by doing that we're hindering them and we're setting up future founders, especially young ones straight out of university. And the generational gap is a concern of mine when the younger generation is looking at the criticism, even in politics if you like I'm not going to go there.
Speaker 2:But if you're looking at the criticism that someone in the arena is getting, my worry is my kids are going to look at that and go. Oh gee, it looks like it sucks to be a founder because you're all you do is just get told that you're a stereotype of you're an innovator or an inventor or a genius. Therefore you have no emotional intelligence, for example. That sounds hard. That just is not for me. So I worry that generationally we will have less founders In decades to come. We want to make that to be an appealing. We want to support founders will put it to leaders and say Hang on a minute, not everyone is perfect. Not found this. People are not perfect. Founders are not perfect. No one is perfect. There's no such thing as the human being that has everything. Humans are version 1.0.
Speaker 2:Right, there's been no upgrade to the human model, and so for me it's about let's help them get as much awareness as possible and let's understand how, by getting the best out of a founder or a leader, you need to be your best self. You can't show up anything other than your best version as a PNC leader and then expect the best self from other people. You're giving from a place of you know who you are. I mean, it's a difficult journey, don't get me wrong, not everyone's. You know on each turn to an object. By and large, you're driving from a level of self awareness, yourself and your role modeling, your role model that behave For other leaders, for founders and so on. You're doing that beautiful work of whether it's coaching, mentor and growth, from a place of a positive mindset, which is, I believe in you. I believe you will find you will get to your potential and you will flourish, and I'm going to give you positive and constructive feedback along the way.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, positive, that's a big one. You know, don't want to upset the boss, so we'll tell them how great they are when they're not. That's actually going. You do them a huge disservice. If you truly care about someone, if you truly care about humanity whether they're your boss or paying your paycheck or whatever then you must have the courage to give that feedback honest feedback, positive and constructive and carry them and nurture them through that journey.
Speaker 1:Love that and I just love as well and they call the.
Speaker 1:I guess the authentic, authenticness of your response, but also this is genuinely how you have approached and approached and we've talked about this before and you know, even if we and I'm sure the listeners are doing this to hopefully doing this is like you link that back to some of the other things we talked about today, like your employee experience, and You're coming at it, and not just professionally but personally as well, and you're being authentic and you're you're breaking down the barriers and the stereotyping which creates that kind of environment where everyone starts to support each other in a, you know, not a very cliche sort of way either.
Speaker 1:It's like everyone genuinely supports each other, provides constructive feedback, tries to develop each other as best they can. I guess that's probably one of the reasons why you and the business have scaled and transformed so successfully over the last couple of years, so I really appreciate it. Thank you. Well, it's a. I know you need to wrap up soon, but I do have a couple of very short questions for you. Best lesson learned Don't assume no, some students don't assume love it.
Speaker 1:Who is the one of the biggest influences in your life, or influencers in your life?
Speaker 2:My dad and if I can just say five seconds as to why, ten percent of the drop of the ocean, this eternal humility and endless pool of joy and light heartedness, even when you've been in a war or you faced adversity in your life, always seeing the brighter side of the situation you're in.
Speaker 1:Love that who's, I guess. Who do you influence? Who do you sort of motivate and influence and make an impact with?
Speaker 2:Hopefully my daughters, but let's not ask them on a bad day.
Speaker 1:I want a good day if.
Speaker 2:I'm a good influence and and my beautiful yeah, my beautiful nieces and nephews.
Speaker 1:Awesome. Last question for you. I know we talked about this a little bit previously as well in terms of travel, and I think you had a very cool holiday finally recently. But look, ideal, ideal, retreats holiday. What would be on the wish list, a bucket list, if you could get off in the morning?
Speaker 2:I'll never forget our lunch when you said, ok, your goal is to book a damn holiday, stop talking about it. Finally heading to. Finally heading to Japan next April, ideal holidays anywhere in the world, with nature and with my family. I'd yeah. So Europe Every way. Really, I don't know why I said Europe straight away, but let's go with Europe, but yeah anyway with family and nature.
Speaker 1:Also thanks. So much, nicole. Thanks for your time today and I'm sure all our listeners enjoy that just as much as I did. So we will be speaking very soon again, appreciate your time, thank you. Thanks, shane, talk soon. Thank you for tuning in to the HR Community Podcast. Remember to like and subscribe and share your views and comments below. This podcast was brought to you by CIVITAS Talent, the HR and HSC recruitment community. Whether you're a candidate looking for a new role or organization looking to secure brand new talent for your team, please get in touch with us today. Thank you.
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