The HR Community Podcast
Subscibe here: https://www.youtube.com/@civitastalent_HRrecruitment
Civitas Talent is excited to bring you a series of podcasts dedicated to the HR community. This is a space where you can learn best-practice solutions from HR community leaders, with host Shane O'Neill.
Whether you’re a CEO, HR executive or operating across the wider HR sector - this podcast is for you!
The HR Community Podcast
The HR Community Podcast: Andrew Lafontaine, Partner Workforce Solutions, Transforming HR with AI and Tech-Driven Workforce Initiatives
We are transforming HR with AI and Tech-Driven Workforce Initiatives! Are you part of the journey?
Join us as we explore this unique workforce solutions with Andrew Lafontaine, who brings a rich tapestry of experiences from his time with giants like AXA, Telstra, and NAB to his current role as Partner for Mercer Pacific.
Andrew's deep dive into the heart of HR reveals how blending in-house roles with consulting expertise offers a comprehensive view of the industry's challenges and innovations. He sheds light on the dynamic shift in Learning and Organisational Development, moving from mere process administration to strategic, tech-driven initiatives that redefine HR's value in modern businesses.
As HR embraces the digital age, Andrew shares his thoughts on the pivotal role of AI tools like Copilot and GPT in transforming HR functions. By automating routine tasks, these technologies allow HR professionals to redirect their focus to higher-value work. Reflecting on the marketing sector's successful tech transition, we consider HR's journey with platforms like Workday and the humorous prospects of using AI to monitor employee behaviors. This episode promises a thoughtful exploration of HR's evolving landscape, leaving listeners with insights on harnessing technology to advance their strategic goals.
Welcome to the HR Community Podcast. My name is Shane O'Neill of founder of Civitas Talent, the HR and HSE recruitment community. Each episode we will host HR leaders and discuss their journey and discover best practice HR solutions across the HR industry. Whether you're a CEO, hr executive or operating across the wider HR space, this podcast is for you. Please like and subscribe, and don't forget to comment and share your views. Enjoy the episode. Good morning everyone. Welcome to another episode of the HR Community Podcast.
Speaker 1:This morning I'm here with Andrew Lafontaine. Andrew is the partner over at Mercer Pacific partner for consulting services and workforce solutions. Good morning Andrew. Morning Simon. How are you? I'm very good. I'm very good. Thanks for jumping on this morning. I know we had a little bit of a chat before we jumped on about a couple of things and I'm sure everyone's ears perked up when they heard Workforce Solutions, given what's happening out in the world of the workforce at the moment. But I guess, before we get into that, andrew, tell us a little bit about yourself. Tell us a little bit about who you are and your rollover at Mercer.
Speaker 2:Sure, so currently I'm working at Mercer leading their workforce solutions team, which is, you know, in other words saying our HR consulting business for the Pacific so for Australia and New Zealand and have been doing that for about three years. Mercer's probably well known to most people for our reward consulting and our salary surveys and a few of other key things, but we've really been sort of doing a lot of work recently with clients around the whole skills piece and the transfer, so that's been great, awesome, awesome and now we'll get a bit more into that um in a little bit, but before we do like um.
Speaker 1:Really interesting background and journey. Obviously you've worked in um a number of various different organisations, especially some of the larger well-known household brands. Tell us a bit about where it all began, Andrew.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, my journey is probably a little bit different to everybody else's when it comes to HR. I never sort of had any particular, you know, career aspiration to move into HR show. When I was young I actually started off and got into uni doing music of all things, yeah wow. But then decided I was going to teach. So I did a teaching degree but then landed my first proper full-time job in a learning function with AXA back then National Mutual really helping and providing education services to the financial planning businesses that they had, professional development et cetera. So the teaching job never came about and then it just really went from there. I then moved into doing a little bit more leadership work at Telstra and then the much broader HR career started when I moved into NAB where I sort of had an OD role. So that included things like culture and workforce planning and a whole bunch of other stuff.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, and then just over the years decided that I really enjoyed consulting as well. So I've probably I do sort of you know, four, four, five, six years in a hr role and then I think I'll go back to consulting and then I'm going to do consulting. So I've been, I've been on the consulting side for the last 10 years now. So um it's um. You know the consulting bit I love because you get to work with so many different clients. You get to see and understand. You know that what, what's the latest thinking, what's the latest initiatives, how organization's tackling it. So you feel like you're always learning when consulting, which is great.
Speaker 1:That's really cool. Yeah, and I guess as well, you've got the unique combination of having worked on the you know, let's call it the in-house side and, um, the external consulting side. Like, do you think that has given you a bit more of a holistic picture of how things operate and how you can? I guess?
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, there's no doubt about that, shana, I mean when I first started on the consulting side with Accenture, I was amazed that you know how many consultants probably didn't realise the amount of I would argue the amount of pressure and the operational component to the roles that when you're sitting in HR, that you have to live and breathe every day because the business is really relying on you, so you do get very little time to sit back and think more strategically about the business, which is one of the challenges of working in-house in HR. So for me, when I'm working with clients, I'm really always mindful that, yes, they might be trying to balance off either, you know, trying to drive some larger project work or larger transformation or technology implementation or an EVP, whatever it is.
Speaker 2:But their day-to-day operational component doesn't go away. You know they still deliver services to the business. They still deliver all of those you know on all of those metrics to the business. They sort of deliver all of those, um, you know on all of those metrics to the business. So, um, I I'd like to think, when I'm working with clients, I do have a a better appreciation and understanding of exactly how this all needs to come together and being, I guess, for to lean into the lnod space that you've been involved in you know specifically and kind of open it up from there.
Speaker 1:How evolved have you seen that L&OD function over the past decade, particularly the fact that you've been in consulting and you've been in the in-house and you've been in NAB and the bigger brands?
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, I think what I've seen, the change, you know, and it's not going to be a surprise to anyone. But I think you know HR was initially predominantly especially when I started, and it was predominantly about administering a process, right? So, whether it be a learning process or a payroll process or a performance process, there's been a real shift around the fact that, yes, those processes still need to be administered and rolled out in organisations, but where the shift has come is, in the first instance, has come with the technology. So, you know, the technologies have absolutely transformed those processes, automated them, made them more efficient, which has allowed HR to really think more broadly about how do they and where do they add value? Because you know, if you can take 80% off time from a process that you once did, well, where can you spend the rest of the time when you're adding value to the business? So it's meant HR people have had to become real digital natives, really understand the tech, the AI, and you know, I know AI that word's been that acronym's been thrown around everywhere, but it is coming and it's, you know, no, ai that word's been that acronym's been thrown around everywhere, but it is coming and it's, you know, while the use cases are only a few, a handful at the moment. It's really going to come and it's going to change everything. So I think that that's where the biggest change has been around the tech.
Speaker 2:But I think the other big change has come that the business's expectation from HR around really supporting and driving business outcomes is much more heightened. You know, if you think about businesses' expectations of their personnel department, as it was called back then, it was literally let's just get the people on board, pay them right, and that was pretty much it. And now it's so much more about that genuine, you know, attraction and retention. So how do we get the best people on board and how do we keep the best people? Um, and that's got to do with the whole hr life cycle because we know, and you know, great leaders, great ceos, great c-suite know that it is the great people who are going to drive those business outcomes and they clearly look to HR to say are we doing everything we possibly can to attract and retain people? So that correlation between great people and business outcomes is really well and truly understood now by the business.
Speaker 1:Yeah, agreed, and I think as well, and you may or may not agree the workforce, the dynamic of the workforce, has changed so much as well, and the demands there. I mean even if I was to, I mean everyone does the contrast between post-COVID and now, but you know, that's literally only a couple of years really and the changes in diversity in the economy versus the workforce. It's just it creates a lot of demand for organisations to figure out, I guess, where they focus their attention. Do you find some of you're having some of those kind of conversations at the moment with businesses?
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's absolutely no doubt about that, shane, I think you know the one-size-fits-all approach to managing employees just does not work anymore, and so organisations in every industry really need to think through you know what are the strategies that are going to keep people here. You know what are the strategies that are going to attract people to come here, and what are the strategies that are going to attract people to come here, and and what are the strategies that are going to get the most out of people. Because I think that's you know, and maybe the pandemic has highlighted that but people are wanting a much greater balance between work and life. Um, and so organizations thinking through all of that. And when I say organisations, HR yeah, that's right Organisations you know the businesses looking to HR to solve some really, really complex generational issues. I've got a 22-year-old son who's just started work after finishing his uni degree, and his expectations of work.
Speaker 2:He thinks you know, his company only has a requirement of six days a month.
Speaker 1:Yeah wow, I still can't get my head around that and that's the best job ever.
Speaker 2:Now I've said to my wife the other day but you know what? Maybe that's just the way things are now. Yeah, I've got to stop overlaying my view of ways of working as the right way and really start. And so what we've got is these generational changes that have happened, where some people still wanting to be five days a week, other people acknowledging that you can get the best out of people two days a week. Yeah, so yeah, massive changes, massive challenges, and they're all falling to HR.
Speaker 1:That's it, exactly. Yeah, and even to your point earlier, just building off even that example, with your son and other organisations that I know and recruit, for they just can't possibly be a one-size-fits-all, because if it works for a business to do six days in the office per month, another organisation are doing five days on site and it works for them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's where I come back to the. You know the technology as well. The technology absolutely enabled this. Businesses were forced to adopt it during the pandemic, so there is no going back. There's no going back. I personally don't believe there's no going back to. Corporate life is now going on days a week.
Speaker 2:Um, I mean, we still also need to acknowledge and manage that there are many, many industries who are five years away. And I often say to people you know, sometimes we need to realise that we're pretty privileged in corporate, that we have the flexibility that we do. You know, my wife works in a hospital. She can't work from home. People in retail can't work from home. People on construction sites can't work from home. So I think the conversation also needs to be moderated a little bit to um, people in retail can't work from home. People on construction sites can't work from home. So I think the conversation also needs to be moderated a little bit to. You know, they talk about the haves and the haves not in terms of choice. Yeah, so I think that there's that overlay as well for it I think so and I mean even from a hr perspective.
Speaker 1:Um and I hope a lot of hr practitioners that are listed will agree is you sort of have to adapt to the environment that you're supporting. So if you're a HR manager in a food manufacturing process manufacturing site, you'll probably be best off to be present and on site to deal with the issues but build that reputation and trust and be seen. So if any of the workers do have an issue, they know they can come to you because the issues but build that reputation and trust and be seen. So if any of the workers do have an issue, you know they know they can come to you because they see you and they know you and they trust you and you've got a reputation, whereas you know if you're working from home full-time and they don't know who's in HO or how to step over to them on the side, it creates a funny dynamic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it does, and I think that's part of I think the work and life is really understanding some of those nuances. I look at the consulting world now. Coming back from the pandemic, you know clients always wanted us on site, working on site. We don't have any clients who want consulting on site because they're not on site. So it doesn't make any sense for us to be sitting in their offices anymore while they're not there. So yeah, as I said, and every industry has their own nuances around them.
Speaker 2:Adapting to those and understanding those and getting the best out of your employees, based on the specific nuance of work life is where everybody is trying to work through at the moment because, as you know, as we discussed, the one size fits all is not going to work anymore.
Speaker 1:Exactly exactly and I know before we jumped on today as well, we talked a little bit about our own industries and you're coming at it from that consultative perspective in workforce solutions and I'm on the HR recruitment side and I had been stalking a lot of your work and research and reports online over the last couple of months, but in one of the articles I read which I found was really, really interesting, you touched on a little bit there, as we're speaking is AI will be your best hire this year, so I found that quite interesting. Tell us a little bit about what you mean by that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, I think the and I was actually talking to Michael, who leads the digital HR practice for me here at Mercer, and the question I sort of posed to Michael was that, you know, when it comes to HR, is HR really thinking about how AI can influence, change, adapt the work that they're doing? Versus? Are they looking to their IT function to provide them with the HR, the AI solutions? And I think that's the critical bit there is that nobody knows their business better than the HR, the AI solutions, and I think that's the critical bit there is that nobody knows their business better than the HR people. And it comes back to that comment I made earlier around HR needing to be much more digital natives. I think HR really have to be understanding and on the hook to actually thinking about the AI solutions that they want to implement in their business, and not necessarily looking externally, because nobody understands their business as well as they do, but for them to be able to do that, they need to really understand the AI.
Speaker 2:Now I'm not talking about understanding the back end of the AI and all the coding and the technical components, but actually what can AI in various?
Speaker 2:I mean the two use cases that everybody understands right now is Copilot and GPT, right, yes, right, everybody understands that.
Speaker 2:So probably everybody in corporate understands those two, but there's so, so much more in terms of process automation and a whole bunch of other stuff. So, you know, if you can get that right, then, yes, ai might be some of the best eyes you will make, you know, through the course of the year, because what you're really doing, then, is bringing together the technology, understanding what people do and understanding the depth of the process that needs to be rolled out, and bringing all those three things together in a way that you know again augments what the human does not necessarily replace what the human does and again frees people up to do high-value work. You know, and I think you know, way, way, way back when we talked about the Ulrich model of, you know, hmr functions, you know shared services, business partner, coe, et cetera, that whole premise was to free up people to work on higher value activity and to push, you know, the transactional work to a shared service centre. In some respects, that iteration is happening again, but this time with technology. Yeah, wow.
Speaker 2:So you know where can we continue to, you know, focus on the transactional way in the most efficient and effective way, while we free up business partners, centre of expertise, people to actually focus on the high-garden stuff to drive the organisation. So you know that operating model piece is almost having its second evolution, now through AI.
Speaker 1:It's really interesting and I know you're a huge advocate for the digital solution side as well, which combines really well with the journey I think that organizations are going through at the moment On the digital front. I mean, I know in my world recruit for fairly large enterprises right through to the small to medium-sized players. Often I speak to companies where they start to, I guess, entertain the idea of looking at systems and a new HRAS and I'll just take Workday as an example and often they go through that journey where they go down the Workday route they an example, um, and often they go through that journey where they go down the workday route, they implement it and then they kind of put their hands in there and go okay, where do we go from here? Do you find that's like a coveted? I'm sure people are here with their notepads and pens, but is that like a common challenge or issue that you face with some of your, your clients?
Speaker 2:yeah, look, absolutely. I think that there's a couple of things that are happening on the technology front. So I think the first thing is that the technology is finally catching up to where HR functions have always wanted them to be. And if you look at the AI skills-based technology platforms like the 8-folds and the gloats and the rejigs, et cetera, you know, for the first time now in the last sort of three to five years, organisations can all of a sudden get a full understanding of their skills in the organisation and they'll arrive in a dynamic way that's generated by AI. Right, so the HR is catching up, but what that means is that HR functions are really having to think through how do we actually best implement this, how do we actually best roll this out to the organisation to actually meet our needs, not the generic needs that you know, that were sort of sold to them. And I think it comes back again to me just really saying you know, hr functions absolutely need to become those digital natives.
Speaker 2:They really do need to understand very deeply the technology, and you know with no you know, the reality is that HR functions haven't had to do that, similar to finance functions, similar to a whole bunch of different. I mean, if you think about it, probably the one function that has best adopted technology is marketing. Yeah, if you just think about, marketing used to be we'll put ads in a newspaper and we'll send out flyers and we'll do all of those things. Then technology came around and now you think about the CMO and how they're using marketing to, you know, attract clients, to service clients. I mean that's where I think, if hr can get to that when it comes to technology and its employees, that's when we'll get the step change in hr use of technology.
Speaker 2:Because you know, the things that we get on our social media, um, you know, the way we're marketed to is really quite amazing when you think about it. Oh, it is Amazing. Yeah, but marketing departments had to make that transition from very traditional ways of marketing through to we've got all of this technology on. But when you think about that, when it comes to HR, have we made that transition as well? Probably not. Yeah, have we really used the technology in a customized way to engage with employees? Probably not, as well as marketing have been able to do.
Speaker 1:It would be my, would be my sort of yeah I think that's a really cool comparison and analogy as well, because you're totally right from from the marketing perspective, how much that whole profession has evolved with digital and a bit of a joke, but I could imagine if companies use it in the wrong way and started to assess algorithms of employees, they'd start to see a whole heap of stuff, particularly with people that are starting to plan their leave.
Speaker 1:But the other thing I wanted to ask you is, while we have the time, we talked a little bit about the journey, where you've come from, how it all began. We talked here a little bit about what's kind of trending and current in the market. A little bit about what's kind of trending and current in the markets. What are you sort of seeing for the future? Because I know, and I'm sure people are rolling their eyes when I say this the future of work. You know what it's a term that keeps getting thrown around, but it is what it is the future of work. What are you seeing from a workforce solution perspective?
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, I think and again, there's probably nothing new that people haven't heard, to be honest, shane but I think the whole mental health is only going to be, continue to be I'm not going to say bigger, but it's going to become even more critical having people who are in the workforce, who we like to use the word thriving at a time when we talk about, you know, engagement, because I think that maybe that old metric around having finally engaged people might need to be rethought through, because to me now it's about df people who are really thriving in your organization, and that comes down to people having, you know, really really strong mental health, um, across both personal and work life.
Speaker 2:So and then, how do, how do organisations support? That, I think, is going to be, you know, continued challenge, continued opportunity. It's an opportunity as well as a challenge because you know, as we know, mental health is a very personal thing for everybody. Again, it's not a one-size-fits-all for individuals. So it makes it a little bit difficult for organisations to have a, you know, a strategy around that that's going to be really personalised at that individual level. So for me, I think that's not going anywhere anytime soon and is only going to be front and centre of HR strategies moving forward. And then, I think, you know, the diversity piece is also, you know, again, I feel, going to accelerate even further. There's going to be more focus on organisations. You know, all aspects of diversity, you know, is only going to be another, you know, strong area that organisations are going to be able to, you know, prove out that they really are. You know, going down that diversity path.
Speaker 2:And then I think the final ones we've touched on is, again, the technology bit's not going anywhere right, that's only going to accelerate. And you know, if I was new coming into HR, you know I would be all across. I would see technology as a core part of the tool set that I need to do to be able to do my job, whereas I think for people who are already in HR and technology is being developed, a lot of us potentially had seen that as an adjunct to our job, whereas now it's just, if you don't understand the tech coming into HR, you're not going to be able to really, you know, execute on the things you need to in a way that's really going to drive the best outcomes for the organisation. So I think it's that shift in mindset that you know technology is not something that sits to the side of HR, it is absolutely in the centre of it. And then we need to think about the whole ecosystem around that 100%.
Speaker 1:And even as you were talking to those different aspects of the future work and examples, I was even thinking about the technology piece there as well and I guess when you think about it you know if you were to focus mental health, diversity and technology. You know, technology actually sort of cycles a lot of the best practice that we can get involved in in both those areas. I spoke to someone quite interestingly recently in the US and they talked about diversity there And's. It's a much larger market, of course, but, um, they talk a lot of more about how do we set up our organization to align with diverse individuals, as opposed to, you know, we're just going to hire heaps of diverse people and have a diverse workforce and we're going to sing it from the rooftops. It's actually using technology and other ways to really enhance and create an experience for employees.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, absolutely. I completely agree. I think that's some of the challenges that organisations are facing and that takes a really different mindset. I think that's the other key thing for me for HR professionals is coming at all of this with the right mindset and that all of these things that are happening are all opportunities as opposed to challenges.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely. A couple of questions before we wrap up. Andrew what's your best lesson learned?
Speaker 2:In life or in work, or probably both, I think. For me, it's keeping focused around that concept of gratitude. I think we can. You know both. Whether you're an HR professional or consulting, you can sometimes lose focus about things in life and I think just stepping back and having, you know, having that attitude of gratitude can really be really quite insightful in how you go about everything everything, both work and your personal life 100%.
Speaker 1:What frustrates you, assuming there's something that does or some things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, look, I think for for me and maybe this is me being a little bit old school but I think what frustrates me is when, um, people don't show, when there's a lack of initiative, I think, um, you know, while work can, sometimes, you know there's bureaucracy and there's a whole bunch of other things that can get in the way. I think one of the best ways to break down all of that is just to show initiative, and I'll find when you can show initiative and my work with people show initiative. You know, funnily enough, we, we get to solve the problems. Uh, so, just, um, you know, people demonstrating initiative is a, it is critical, and when they don't, probably frustrates me the most.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's good Interested. Last one for you influences in your life, Anyone that stands out as an influence or has been an influence or is an influence.
Speaker 2:Look specifically in my life, I think, like everybody, funnily enough, my very first manager literally my first job he was just a great, you know, from a leadership perspective, he just taught me a lot just about respect and how to do. I mean, I was just some junior person who just, you know, was entering the workforce but you know, he put everything. He always had everything in perspective, he showed everybody respect and you always felt that you know he was just a normal bloke. Yeah, I think for me that's when I'm working with my teams and you know I've managed really large teams across my journey I hope people think about me that the best thing they could say to me was that, yeah, andrew was pretty normal. I think if we can all achieve just to be that, then work would be a pretty cool place to go 100%.
Speaker 1:Love that. That's great. Thanks so much, andrew. Well, I really appreciate you jumping on. That was really insightful and obviously for anyone that wants to learn and hear more, reach out to Andrew because I'm sure you'd welcome any conversations around the workforce solution side. Maybe not all in one go, but no, I really appreciate your time again. Love being on, shane. Thanks for that.
Speaker 2:All good.
Speaker 1:Talk soon. Thank you for tuning in to the HR Community Podcast. Remember to like and subscribe and share your views and comments below. This podcast was brought to you by Civitas Talent, the HR and HSC recruitment community. Whether you're a candidate looking for a new role or organization looking to secure brand new talent for your team, please get in touch with us today, thank you.
.png)